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Thanks for that reply .Quote:
Originally Posted by alancohen
Sometime in the future you might want to use your existing test setup ( & maybe some virtual EQ ) to help narrow down the range ( that you believe "sparkle" comes from ) .
Then that knowledge can be applied to a building an "effective" RC compensation network for your 802s .
This is another way of saying , I doubt you need flat, extended response all the way out to 18K , to be exposed to sparkle .
:)
Earl: I've been exposed to some pretty cool electrostatics as well as high end tweeters over the years that really shine. What I mean by shine (or sparkle) is the ultra highs seem to just dangle in the air for extended periods of time instead of just making their presence known and fading quickly into oblivion.
That said, I'm convinced there are endless trade-offs in the audiophile world. I would not trade what these speakers give me in realism and presence for a little extra sustain in the upper frequency range. I am completely seduced by HF compression drivers and what they can do with the human voice and a saxaphone. I am very satisfied and, if I do nothing else with my system, can be completely happy just listening to what I have.
Greets!Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl K
Ah! OK, missed this in a quick scan, though the old grill cloth density may ideally need different component specs. Of course, it's a good starting point for 'voicing'.
GM
Ooops, I misses this post, Earl. Yes, I still have the 30923 modules, just haven't installed them yet. There is so much that needs to be done first. I need to find the best place for the Heathkits and the sub for proper bass response. I find that even a few inches foward or back or a few degrees of twist right to left can make a difference in a 60Hz peak or suckout.Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl K
I also have to buy some area rugs since everything is on hardwood floors now as well as window treatments since I have bare windows and sliding doors right in the first reflection points. So there is much to do and buy before I get this really start measuring and getting things nailed down.
Here's a pic of my current, make-shift set up so far: Untitled | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
As you can see...lots to do.
Assuming the recording is accurate [not likely], this requires a flat response out to about 30 kHz, well beyond what all but the most extreme super tweeter horns can do, so typically, significant spiking around a horn's upper limit of 14-15 kHz is employed and sometimes spiking down in the sibilance range ~ an octave below also to further increase the effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by alancohen
The latter spiking can add too much presence [ringing] to some instruments and even female vocals if already mixed in [very common], especially in a compression horn system that acoustically does this to some extent to every recording, so a 'mixed bag' of trade-offs at best that I could never make work well enough with just one system EQ contour; though judging by some folk?s opinion, some manufacturers have succeeded to some extent with their ?full-range? point source drivers by simply boosting this ~octave with mass quantities of cone break-up modes.
Anyway, experiment in the digital domain since you can and please let us know what, if any, EQ worked for you in your app.
GM
Oh wow! Your basic acoustical nightmare! Ideally, jacking the speakers up is going to be required too, not to mention getting rid of the coffee table, a huge early 1st reflection zone in the worst place possible. Really, long term, you need to use the components in a DIY tower/column [aka MLTL] to overcome many of this room's core problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by alancohen
GM
I have new cabs on the midterm plan. Not that I don't appreciate the vintage Heathkit look, but...I think I want to separate and dampen the 811s from the 416s ala Model 19s. I am willing to sacrifice vintage for sonic improvement.
Second, here are some more shots of the space empty IMG_1734 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! . Click the "Older" button on top to flip through a few images.
The good news is it sounds reasonably OK. The open space allows the LF waves to stretch out a bit. The fireplace, doors and windows need acoustic treatments as does the cathedral ceiling. I'll build some when I get my shop set up in the garage. Right now it's filled with boxes that need unpacking. My other obtacle is I have a new puppy in the house, so new area rugs are not in the cards for a month or two.
I like the fact that with the volume control on 1 with a 15W/ch amp I get sound filling the entire house. On 3 you have to raise you voice to be heard 5' away.
Now that I have furniture and bookshelves in I don't get much slapback any longer. It looks worse than it sounds.
Oh yeah...and that raised platform the speakers are on, it's hollow underneath!
This brings up a good point. I am at a stage in my listening "career" where I am beyond being impressed by recording engineer/audiophile sonic gimmicks. I do not desire enhanced highs, mids or lows. I do not listen to music for the effect that a system generate other than it's ability to reproduce the sound of a live performance. Playing with the stereo image for it's own sake does nothing for me any longer. Making sounds go up and down, in an out and left and right does not make music sound real to me. Bass that thumps in my chest is cool, but bores and wears me out quickly. I want to hear music the way it would be if I was hearing it live.Quote:
Originally Posted by GM
That sparkle I mention is what I would hear if I was sitting in a small place with a small group playing acoustic instruments and someone dings a chime. I want it to ring in my speakers to the same degree and for the same duration that it would if I were there live. No more and no less.
Around here, you're 'preaching to the choir', but the reality is that they mix music principally for movies, vehicle and ear bud apps, which is anything but life-like and why the future is ever higher resolution, lower distortion digital signal, room correction.Quote:
Originally Posted by alancohen
GM
alancohen, I pretty much agree with your sentiments in the post prior to GM's above. Most of us are constrained by general 'living' and architectural constraints and have to compromise on perfection and focus on getting as good a sound, that we can live with, as we reasonably can in our circumstances. I am enjoying this thread - may there be more like this on the Forum.